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dlh:
Deuteronomy says your hand gets cut off if you
spank the mahhabone [you can guess what part
of the body the bible is talking about here
:) ]
ShirovWannabe:
I'm not here
to try and be right, I'm here to find out where
I am wrong [...applause all round...until...]
FriarFryUp:
hmm... but that would presume you know you are
right somewhere ShirovWannabe, no? :)
eadon-com:
FriarFryUp and FoamingFundy should learn from
Shirov. Shirov [in a preceding argument about
religion] did not make quotes from the bible.
Instead we were able to reason things out and
think
dlh:
FoamingFundy, tell us more about the mah hah
bone
FoamingFundy:
mah hah bone is the drink that eadon and poops
are drinking even now
dlh:
woah, FoamingFundy. So it is a metaphor eh FoamingFundy
you tricky dude!
eadon-com:
FoamingFundy Jesus turned water into wine
FoamingFundy:
not alcoholic wine
FriarFryUp:
I *think* eadon
eadon-com:
ok FriarFryUp, lets see where thought leads
us
dlh:
eadon, how do you like the taste of the mah
hah bone?
FriarFryUp:
But you must remember, when I *think* I try
to understand to some degree based on previous
understandings of mine
Viking:
thoughts lead nowhere if so willed. An argument
can go on forever
FriarFryUp:
and they do Viking :)
eadon-com:
so let us say that [hypothetically - eadon-com
is a sceptical agnostic] god created time. Is
this plausible?
dlh:
could god create an argument he could not refute?
FriarFryUp:
ever see an argument on one verse of scripture?
FriarFryUp:
why not eadon? Would we agree that God is all
powerful?
eadon-com:
do we all agree that god created time?
FriarFryUp:
if he's all knowing, surely he knows how to
use all power
eadon-com:
quite FriarFryUp
FriarFryUp:
agreed
Viking:
nah, I bet God is wondering who created him.
He has a temple where he worships GodGod
eadon-com:
so if god created time then when he made us
he simultaneously made our past and our future,
the whole of our lives. Does FriarFryUp concur
with that assumption?
FriarFryUp:
Sure eadon
FoamingFundy:
three types of wine in scripture eadon, sorry
did you ever see Jesus or His dips. drunk or
even just mellow? no no alcoholic wine, or unfermented
sorry :-(
FriarFryUp:
unfermented wine is never mentioned in scripture
FoamingFundy. I did several searches on it
dlh:
FoamingFundy, can you get mah hah bone wine
at the Safeway store?
FoamingFundy:
the wine that Jesus made and they all drank
in the same hour was unfermented.
Isolani:
Since time is relative to moving bodies, we
must think of time as the distance between events.
- Bertrand Russell - because bodies in motion
are not static - me. I don't know what this
means but has the sounds lucid.
eadon-com:
OK good FriarFryUp, now we are getting somewhere
FoamingFundy:
eadon you said that you didn't believe in God.
Your getting no where. Your a man of great nothings,
you love talkin about brilliancy of mind that's
all.
FriarFryUp:
let eadon have his mental fun FoamingFundy
eadon-com:
thanks FriarFryUp :)
eadon-com:
if god created FriarFryUp's past and future,
as well as FriarFryUp himself then surely god
is accountable for FriarFryUp's actions. Everything
that FriarFryUp does has been created by god.
Does FriarFryUp agree?
FriarFryUp:
God created all moments, in which he permitted
me to do the things I did and do.
FriarFryUp:
Yes "he created them"
eadon-com:
great! so everything you do are actions that
god created.
FriarFryUp:
But, they are the actions "we do"
FoamingFundy:
I cant learn the important thing of life from
an atheist
eadon-com:
FoamingFundy has a closed mind
Isolani:
If what eadon says, that God is indeed the author
of everything, as Christians like to say, then
he controls even past and future. How does this
conflict with Christianity really?
eadon-com:
yes FriarFryUp, that is correct
FoamingFundy:
be careful FriarFryUp he's a mah hah bone drinkin
wolf
FriarFryUp:
"we do" the actions, he gave us the ways to
do them
eadon-com:
but everything you do was foreseen and created
by god, who is timeless, a god who sees all
of time laid out before him like a road map.
FoamingFundy:
my mind is closed to the tricks of the devil,
through Jesus I refuse to let him in through
silly reasonings
FriarFryUp:
but what is interesting eadon-com, Is that it
seems this road map has no end?
Isolani:
Try to be polite FoamingFundy, be a good evangelical.
No more of those witchy incantations please.
FoamingFundy:
what's a witchy incantations? your wayyyyyy
above my packers hat Isolani.
eadon-com:
good point FriarFryUp
FriarFryUp:
it started, but never ends
eadon-com:
but the universe is finite, and god created
it
FriarFryUp:
it changes, but never ends.
eadon-com:
what seems endless to us, to the god that created
it, it is very small
FriarFryUp:
it started, and that's the only reason it's
"finite"
Isolani:
Relax FoamingFundy, you garner no souls with
vinegar.
eadon-com:
but lets take FriarFryUp's life time: to a god,
FriarFryUp's lifetime is a blink of an eye
FoamingFundy:
hello Isolani. help me incantations of witchy?
FriarFryUp:
which is why imo, Jesus says "eternal life"
FriarFryUp:
of course eadon
eadon-com:
so it is easy to imagine that god created all
of FriarFryUp's actions. After all, god is all
knowing, all powerful and is outside of time.
FriarFryUp:
but remember, they were "my actions"
Isolani:
Words repeated for their magical power. Such
as, "Isolani is the third level of demon" as
you told me last night.
FriarFryUp:
I am still held responsible for "my actions".
God did not stop "my actions" from happening,
that is why they were created. Could it not
be said though?
FoamingFundy:
eadon you'd do better to give a lecture on way
there is no God, rather than trying to figure
Him out when you don't even believe on Him?
your too intelligent for your own good
eadon-com:
but how can they be FriarFryUp's actions when
god created them. FriarFryUp might *think* that
FriarFryUp was in control of his actions, but
really FriarFryUp's actions were all decided
at the start of the universe, by god.
FriarFryUp:
That we too, have always existed. I mean, I
doubt one eternal time God thought of us but
always knew of us. He might have at one time
said "let there be light" but in a sense, we
were always blueprints in gods mind
FoamingFundy:
now does eadon sound like an atheist? somebody
help me please?
eadon-com:
FoamingFundy, I am trying to put myself in the
shoes of a christian and see how things pan
out.
FoamingFundy:
EADON YOUR SHOWING THAT YOU NOT A TRUE ATHEIST
FriarFryUp:
but if God called them "my actions" are they
not? Even if he created them, yet attributed
them to "mine"
eadon-com:
yes FriarFryUp, but can you now see the difficulty
of what you are suggesting?
FriarFryUp:
to a degree yes
eadon-com:
you are saying that whilst god created your
actions, you are responsible for them
FriarFryUp:
but, for me, who am I to argue with God? If
God created my actions, and called them mine,
I will not disagree
eadon-com:
so can you now see that what ever you do, it
is not freewill anymore?
FriarFryUp:
Surely if God is all knowing and powerful, if
he says actions are mine, they must be?
dlh:
as science advances the supernatural retreats
FoamingFundy:
God has set before us two roads, His PERFECT
WILL, AND HIS PERMISSIVE WILL, now its your
choice which road to take eadon?
eadon-com:
but if god created your actions at the start
of time, then you have no control over them.
you will act them out, but god created them.
FriarFryUp:
I cannot get out of what God created. However
God alone has the right to say if my actions
are mine and if he does, they are mine even
though He created them.
dlh:
"Above all, we have to remember that the myth
of Jesus of Nazareth as recorded in the gospels
was just one of a number of redeemer mythologies."
John Allegro in his book Dead Sea Scrolls and
Christian Myth
eadon-com:
if god created your actions then you have no
free will, your actions were created by god
FriarFryUp:
they are of "My will" and "his" and thus, what
Augustine stated, that both wills exist without
contradiction is held true
eadon-com:
there is a contradiction there FriarFryUp. When
god made you he made everything you do, he could
see all of your life laid out before him
eadon-com:
even before you were born your actions were
pre-destined because they were created by god
FriarFryUp:
ok eadon-com, I can agree with that, so long
as what I stated is held true
FoamingFundy:
eadon GODS PERFECT WILL AND GODS PERMISSIVE
WILL these are the two choices that God gives
us.
Isolani:
To believe as eadon does, does not contradict
what Christians might believe were their minds
stronger and more inclusive, capable of living
with dichotomy.
WickedMerlin:
question is: Did the first single celled organism
have genes?
BishopHavoc:
prefer levis WickedMerlin
eadon-com:
Nowadays a cell has proteins, RNA and DNA. The
theory is that in the first organisms RNA fulfilled
the roles of all 3
FishOn:
the fascinating thing to me is that we have
biologists, physical theorists, anthropologists,
biologists, palaeontologists, etc. all tripping
around the same issues.. and there is no GUT
for life
FishOn:
a tower of Babel so to speak
BishopHavoc:
I don't doubt it, out of hand, but evidence
strongly suggests farce
JGR:
if you have done a good study and thus concluded
that evolution is a farce then you would have
no problem telling me the difference between
Punctuated Equilibrium and the conservative
Dawkins gradualism no?
PriestPyramid:
I am no expert,
but there seems to be abundant evidence supporting
evolutionary theory, and so far it has made
several correct predictions in biology.
BishopHavoc:
"abundant " evidence PriestPyramid ??
PriestPyramid:
yes BishopHavoc
WickedMerlin:
true, PriestPyramid. Evolution is a proven fact,
but it doesn't disprove a God as you would also
point out.
PriestPyramid:
Whether Evolutionary
theory survives exactly as it is today seems
to bear little on Christian theology, if at
all.
WickedMerlin:
well it has some relevance , PriestPyramid.
As the bible states that the animals were created
on "one day" (or am I mistaken) it proves that
the Bible can't be taken literally.
PriestPyramid:
Anyone who
wants to literalize all of the bible has more
problems than evolution, Christ taught in parables,
not literalisms.
TheFourHorsemen:
Well, WickedMerlin
no, that would only prove that the day order
can't be taken literally
WickedMerlin:
Not really, TheFourHorsemen - it goes to credibility
and, as PriestPyramid has pointed out, much
of the rest can also only be understood as parables.
eadon-com:
I think evolution proves creationism wrong.
Many christians still want evolution banned
from schools and, just as bad, creationism taught
as science
PriestPyramid:
Creationism
is not good science IMHO
eadon-com:
Creationism ISN'T SCIENCE full stop!
TheFourHorsemen:
Much of the
rest of what? WickedMerlin
WickedMerlin:
of the bleedin' Bible. What did you think, Swiss
cheese??
TheFourHorsemen:
Genesis?
No I don't think so. The bible is a mixture
of History and parables. One parable doesn't
negate the rest of history
PriestPyramid:
Genesis is
not very historical, in fact I think it is possible
it was borrowed from a non-Judaic tradition
TheFourHorsemen:
unless you
think the moon is made of Swiss cheese
eadon-com:
The moment you don't take the bible literally
you are doomed because you have to make arbitrary
choices on which bits to believe and which bits
are nonsense
WickedMerlin:
and that's why religion is a business for mysticists
, eadon.
PriestPyramid:
eadon-com,
I do not take the bible literally and see that
as a good approach to the Truth, and I am a
Catholic. Hardly 'doomed'
DeaconNihilo:
or you can read the bible for the meaning it
has and not worry about literalism
JGR:
DeaconNihilo:
or you can read the bible for the meaning it
has and not worry about literalism
TheFourHorsemen:
eadon and
what exactly do you know about hermeneutics?
PriestPyramid:
Christianity
has its own right and left wrong, and as a member
of the left I affirm science, and I do not think
literalizing the bible is the best way to find
the god Truth therein
PriestPyramid:
I also think
literalizing theories as fact or truth is a
mistake as well
PriestPyramid:
Jesus said,
"Why do you not judge for yourselves what is
right?" (Luke 12:57). "Do you not know that
we are to judge angels? How much more, matters
pertaining to this life!" (I Cor. 6:3).
pmk:
Soon it will be child abuse to teach small children
that God will put folks in his eternal barbecue
pit presided over by Gremlins in Halloween costumes!
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