Talkback: christians vs atheists big bang and evolution

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From:	WHOEXISTS	2001-03-31 16:51:10
Subject:	big bang/evolution
Comment:	The physical universe we happen to exist in is regulated by it's 'physical laws'. Other 'dimensions', 'universes' are equally possible: PROBABLE I should state. These are not subject to our laws. Why should they be? Why does this 'God' as you call 'him' have to conform to the dimension we exist in? From what I read here you all should be aware of the historical records and 'fossel' finds of the existance of ET visits. Peru is an interesting site for such things. Why, the Holy Bible, alone, mentions them numerous times. After all, the Holy Bible is a collection of archaic writings from hundreds of witnesses and field reporters about an extraordinarily unique offer made to humankind from 'Life' from another dimension. The mathematical formula to recieve the offer is AB=C. Demanding Physical Proof in a Physical Universe is one thing. Demanding Physical Proof about a Non-Physical Universe is quite another. Without some type of insight it resorts into speculation on the part of all perspectives. The question becomes--Is there a source for the 'insight?'
From:	Tigran	2001-10-19 16:47:15
Subject:	Listen
Comment:	Do not believe that god is a living thing. It is a higher being.For all you know,god is a massive cloud of energy,that gives birth to gases,and the rest of what makes the universe. There is no hell or heaven,they were made up. Simply for the fact that people wanted to believe that if your'e good you get rewarded if not then you go to hell. At those days people were trying to think of anything that would explain who they really are. But instead of SCIENCE they used their imaginations to the fullest. This is why i dont believe in religions.(no disrespect)
From:	gof	2002-02-28 17:47:04
Subject:	comment
Comment:	A PRACTICAL MAN'S PROOF OF GOD The existence of God is a subject that has occupied schools of philosophy and theology for thousands of years. Most of the time, these debates have revolved around all kinds of assumptions and definitions. Philosophers will spend a lifetime arguing about the meaning of a word and never really get there. One is reminded of the college student who was asked how his philosophy class was going. He replied that they had not done much because when the teacher tried to call roll, the kids kept arguing about whether they existed or not. Most of us who live and work in the real world do not concern ourselves with such activities. We realize that such discussions may have value and interest in the academic world, but the stress and pressure of day-to-day life forces us to deal with a very pragmatic way of making decisions. If I ask you to prove to me that you have $2.00, you would show it to me. Even in more abstract things we use common sense and practical reasoning. If I ask you whether a certain person is honest or not, you do not flood the air with dissertations on the relative nature of honesty; you would give me evidence one way or the other. The techniques of much of the philosophical arguments that go on would eliminate most of engineering and technology if they were applied in those fields. The purpose of this brief study is to offer a logical, practical, pragmatic proof of the existence of God from a purely scientific perspective. To do this, we are assuming that we exist, that there is reality, and that the matter of which we are made is real. If you do not believe that you exist, you have bigger problems than this study will entail and you will have to look elsewhere.
From:	The Indoctrinating Apologeticist	2003-03-09 04:46:01
Subject:	Are you people absolutely MAD!??!?
Comment:	Have you ever heard of creation science?!?!? HEELLOOOO!?? Didnt you know that the theory of evolution has been completely disproven??!?? The only reason that the theory even exists and is talked about anymore is so that people like yourselves can continue to be athiestic!! You people drive me crazy!! OK OK maybe I am being a little bit too harsh. You probably havent even heard of creation science so Ill give you a little clue. The oldest tree found in the world is roughly 4400 years old. The biggest desert in the world, found in Africa, grows at a certain number of feet per year. If it has been millions of years since it started to grow, or even fifty thousand years, it would have consumed the entire world!! And thats not all folks, they found trees growing sideways straight up and upside down through the layers of earth which scientists say is not possible. They put dates on the layers of the earth and if a single tree were to be there in the way it IS THERE, then there would have to be some sort of WORLD WIDE FLOOD!!! Oh my God NOOO not a flood. I hate to break it to ya, but the only explanation for every single thing that is in this world is that there was a flood that covered the world about 4,400 years ago, and that goes right in line with...the Bible...Oh dear God no not the Bible!! GET A GRIP PEOPLE. You are still talking about a theory that is completely STUPID!!
From:	Evo	2003-08-19 00:11:09
Subject:	4D
Comment:	I was looking at the latest models of the universe and it looks more like a bunch of soap bubbles in the corner of a sink or bathtub than one big bubble. Am I right. That makes sense also, it's so simple and fractaly and chaotic, like it should be. Like every thing in nature, just a larger scale. That Margaret Geller and Dan Fabricant are some hefty genius's, AY!
From:	Clayton Carter	2003-11-13 01:55:45
Subject:	Get your facts straight!
Comment:	The Big bang theory has mathematical proof defending the more than likely history of the universe. Regardless of whether or not you know of, or understand this mathematics, it does not follow that the concept is untrue just because we cannot explain the entire story yet. There is also a misconception in modern christian theology regarding beginning and end. There is no beginning and end, everything is cyclical, just changed. Think of it this way, I turn the key in my ignition, and the electrical impulse to the starter is triggered forcing the fuel injectors to squirt and the spark plugs to fire. Then the car starts, I drive somewhere and turn it off, so the car has a beginning and end of a trip, but this is a near-sighted assuption. The cars trip began at the big bang, when all the little atoms and molecules were bouncing off of eachother. What the car and I am composed of is also subect to the action and reaction of the universe. reaction is an action that must also have some reaction, and so on and so on, until eventually the universe. There is no start and end, it is a cycle of energy and mass, as relating to the laws of physics. Now the other things that bothered me are how the big-bang does prove evolutionary theory in a way, because it is a probable eventuality of the universe. there is more to this, anyone up to talk is welcome to chat with me. sn Bdrmskillz
From:	g__day	2004-03-08 21:13:08
Subject:	Christians - Why is the Universe so Big?
Comment:	As someone who believes in God and has a keen and long interest in both high energy physics and astronomy I have a simple question. * * * Why is the Universe so Big? * * * Our relative size and position in the Universe is like the significance of a single random electron spinning around a single carbon atom in a undistinguished molecule of DNA chain forming a specific body of a specific person on our Earth. Why did God create the entire Universe - some 10 ^ 100 suns and planets if we are his central and defining creation? Why did God need there to be just a vast domain, som e 48 billion light years across when we occupy such a small fraction of it? Why does God want such a large Universe - what does it hint is our destiny as I am sure it is their for his purpose and we are centre stage for his plans? * * * BTW - from other threads - Quantum physics, M-theory and String theory all have pretty reasonable models as to how a Universe can be created from nothing. What is far more challenging is to say why our 17 fundamental constants are so well tuned to permit intelligent life to exists. The chance of that happening randomly is about 1 in 1 ^ 120 of that due to uncertainity in quantum physics alone. So either our universe is one in an infinite number and/or our Universe was custom designed for us as intelligent life that can precieve the wonder of our reality. Physicsts have realised recently that in a very real and meaningful way our presence defines the Universe. It requires a very special Universe to create and nuture intelligent life that can observe, interact and possible one day even direct the course of the Universe towards some set goal - maybe this is the course God wants us to set next?
From:	Nina	2004-04-18 06:11:28
Subject:	The Big Bang Theory vs. God
Comment:	I have been raised as a Christan since I was little. I went to church every week and bible study. Even though I went to church and Bible study I always had my doubts. One day during school my two friends started having a debate about how the world started. One of my friends was a christan and then other one was not. The non christan brought up some very interseting facts that made me face some facts. Even though there is no way to be 100% sure that The Big Bang Theory is the way that the world started people have to also recgonize that there is also no way to be 100% sure that God was the creater of the earth. I for one and more of a beliver of the Big Band Theory. Though I do not think that religion is a wate of time. Even though I do not believe in it completely I know for a fact that it has helped people that I know get through some pretty tough times. It gives people something to believe and it also gives people hope. So I say that if someone wants to believe in something that makes them feel safe and secure then let them. Even if it does not plausable to anyone else.
From:	Quantum	2004-04-23 14:17:52
Subject:	BigBang_VS_LittleGod
Comment:	Even from the point of view of a fantasy story the creation myths still seem silly. In god based monotheist creation myths tells of a god 'as in a intelligent complex powerful being' creating Space, Time, matter and energy... and so on. Space and Time are aspects of existance, it's like saying god doesn't exist and then he creates the Universe. How could god do anything with out the dimension of TIME? If there is a god then she had to come from somewhere, if god created the universe then god must have developed/evolved in an other universe, and that universe had to come from so where, so then was that universe created by an other god? maybe but then that god had to come from an other universe... sooner or later we'd have to trace this back to a Big Bang in some universe. Or maybe god is a time traveler, and maybe god developed in this universe then traveled back in time to create this universe... but as we try to explain how god could have created any universe things just get too silly. But then most concepts of god are more silly than that anyway. We know (or we all should know) complexity develops from simple forms, so existance had to develop from some Big Bang like event, if there are any gods then they had to develop somehow. The Big Bang is like the time reverce of a Black Hole, Black Holes eat up space and time and matter and energy... the Big Bang produced them, the Big diffrence is the Big Bang was a universe wide event... Black Holes exist inside the Universe, while at one point in time 'the Big Bang was the Universe. http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/jcfancy1/kill_gods.htm
From:	Quantum	2004-04-23 14:22:05
Subject:	BigBang_VS_LittleGod_2
Comment:	Some thing I find starnge is the bases for what some would call proof of god. even looking at phyisics in strange ways to try and find her. http://www.able2know.com/forums/about20276.html I find it strange how people claim that the laws of phyisics are exactly right to allow intelligence to exist, and that it means god must have done it? First of if god is intelligent and created this universe as it is then she must have existed somewhere where intelligence is possible, how did that place god came from get to be the way it is? Plus how do they know if the size of an electron wasn't the same or if the speed of light is off a bit intelligent life couldn't develop, did they test that out in an other universe? WOuldn't it stand to reason that intelligent life could develop diffrently under diffrent physics... So if things had to happen some way, why not they way we did. Or for an other though even if there is only one way for intelligence to exist, then MAYBE there are infinite universes with all diffrent physics and then our odds of us comming out in at least one of them would be pretty good. Maybe there is a god or gods out there somewhere, but let's not make silly stories about them because that would be both disrespecting the gods and the Universe by saying silly stuff like: a god is the Mommie of the Universe.
From:	Sanjay	2004-06-06 05:58:58
Subject:	Scientific LAWs Violated!
Comment:	Like many so-called Christians, I bought into aspects of the Big Bang 'Theory' and Evolution, until deeper scientific study and the Word of God showed me otherwise. First of all , the Big Bang 'Theory' can not be proved and violates key scientific laws. By the way, a theory is a tentative theory about the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena wheras a law a generalization that describes recurring facts or events in nature that is accepted as truth. The Big Bang Theory [BBT] states that the universe originated 20 billion years ago from the cataclysmic explosion of a small mass of matter at extremely high density and temperature. Law of Biogenesis: All scientific observations show that life can only come from life. - BBT says life came from non-life. First Law of Thermodynamics[Conservation]: Energy is always conserved, it can not be created or destroyed. - BBT claims energy is added or created. BBT violates conservation of matter by claiming the addition of matter into the universe. Second Law of Thermodynamics [Entropy]: 'in all energy exchanges, if no energy enters or leaves the system, the potential energy of the state will always be less than that of the intial state. - BBT claims there the universe gained more energy and became more organized while every explosion in history energy is reduced and causes disorder and disarray. You can blow up a brick factory a trillion times and never get a house.
From:	Bilbo Baggins	2004-08-23 06:45:38
Subject:	To Eadon
Comment:	Eadon You said that matter can be 'created in a Lab' That's interesting how? Does it create itself like spontaneous generation? Which is an old proposterous scientific theory. Do Scientists rub a magic lamp and wish for it to appear on the dish? Or perhaps they use one of their test monkeys to do it for them? The point is that you stated it was created. Ofcourse it would have to be created by scientists and scientists are intelligent. Therefore there must be an intelligent force behind the 'Creation' of matter. Shall I go on?
From:	Bilbo Baggins	2004-08-23 07:00:35
Subject:	Christians are ignorant?
Comment:	Some christians are very ignorant some athiests are too. Here is a list of intelligent men and women who were either Christian or believed in God. Scientists: Isaac Newton (Born Anglican converted to Arianism); James Clerk Maxwell ( Born Presbytarian converted to Baptist, Einstein said of his contributions 'most profound and the most fruitful that physics has experienced since the time of Newton.' ); Louis Pasteur ( Catholic Microbiologist); The Wright Brothers ( 'The Brethren, any of several Christian denominations, most of which are Anabaptist' ); Charles Darwin ( Anglican ); Leonard Euler ( Calvinist mathemetican and physicist); Galileo Gallilei ( Catholic, sure the church executed him, but that doesn't make him any less of a christian ); Freeman Dyson ('Christian mathematician and physicist, Dyson was responsible for demonstrating the equivalence of the two formulations of quantum electrodynamics'). Other Noted Intelligent Christians: C.S. Lewis ( A professor at Oxford and Later the first Professor of Renaissance and Medieval Literature at Cambridge , was an Athiest converted to Christianity) and his close friend...... J.R.R Tolkein ( Catholic, Professor of Anglo-Saxon at Oxford, wrote the Hobbit, The Lord Of The Rings and The Simarillon, etc. ); Thomas Moore ( Author of Utopia, chancellor of Henry the Vlll, and martyred; Martin Luther King Jr.; Mother Theresa; Ralph Waldo Emerson. You Athiests are right. Christains are ignorant fools, and the world would be better off without them.
From:	eadon	2004-08-28 21:47:22
Subject:	matter creation
Comment:	In labs matter can be routinely created from electromagnetic radiation, which is pure energy. This is E=MC^2 in action. More subtly, we can detect energy (and by implication, matter) created out of nothing in the lab, for example via the 'Casimir effect' where two parallel plates experience an attractive force. This type of energy/matter creation is only fleeting though, and is referred to as the energy of the vacuum, and is thought to be a quantum artefact. Quantum mechanics allows energy to exist temporarily out of nowhere. This process is poorly understood though, as quantum mechanics hints that the energy of a vacuum should be about 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times larger than the experimentally observed value. In other words, the most gigantic discrepancy of finite non-zero values between theory and experiment known to science.
From:	ben	2004-09-17 22:05:14
Subject:	the irony of it all
Comment:	I read the post about 'creation science' and laughed. First of all, evolution is a theory which has a great deal more evidence in favour of it being true than false. If you belive in the great flood then i'm afraid its been proven by scientists that it is impossible for a wooden boat big enough to carry all the animals on the planet. Thirdly, this probably gets overlooked as well, there isn't enough water on the planet to flood the whole place. Fact. I've heard some wacky ideas about the geometry of the world being completly differnet 6000 years ago also - how is this possible if you look at the speed at which the techtonic plates are moving now? Totally illogical. Scientists have also raised the issue of how did all the animals of the boat survive. Apparently, the number of ants required would have been a joke. I belive its also important when disussing these matters to define what is meant by a fact-a fact is something which has been proved beyond reasonable doubt. How do we prove things beyond resonable doubt? By using are five senses, i.e. by science and mathmatics. By quoting this 'creation science' and sayiing that there is evidence totally disproving evolution is total rubbish. I could for instance list every argument for evolution, and they would far outweigh those against, but it still wouldn't prove that evolution is fact. On another aside the points raised about space and time are interesting. The bible says God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. Why did God rest on the seventh day when hes got the rest of eternity to rest? Also if hes an all powerful being, why does he/she/it need to rest? The rabbit holes just go deeper. I apologise if i have offended anyone with any displays of ignorence
From:	Samson	2004-09-28 02:43:30
Subject:	A quick comment
Comment:	The kid who said that evolution is disproven is a complete moron. Evolution is a fact and has been proven over and over (IE- Galapogos finches, feathers, moths during the industrial evolution). It makes perfect common sense and it works. Do your research and dont let religion blind your learning. The pope has even stated that evolution does not conflict with the catholic religion. Get an education, study science, then maybe you can have a decent conversation about the way the world works. For now keep your ignorant comments in your own closed-in little world.
From:	DOVID	2004-11-23 04:22:06
Subject:	About UNIVERSE
Comment:	Hey guyz! just one thing:In this world all is not impossible ,That proof that have no explication possible! U know c ya!
From:	Bubba	2005-01-11 13:39:00
Subject:	Big Bang
Comment:	As no single theory can describe the Universe, except its big, full of things and quite pretty, how about the theory that our little galaxy is actually part of a cell of a really big 'thing' called bob who for all accounts may as well be god. who likes watching ET (Extraordinary Television - which never snows up or loses signal) and sitting back drinking a beer.
From:	sadam	2005-02-14 22:37:12
Subject:	____
Comment:	I don't see how people can believe in god. You are just believing things that are not even true and making yourself stupid. And I have a question. How can god be really? He has to be good to all of the people who believe in him which he couldn't do and has pretty much proved he can't do. If he could good people who believe in him wouldn't be getting killed. It just doesn't work. Just face the facts.
From:	deadfred	2005-02-16 21:48:11
Subject:	logic
Comment:	'If God did not exist,it would be necessary to invent Him' clever,but if so,why all the effort to disinvent Him?
From:	taesing	2005-05-05 15:27:34
Subject:	Creation and the Big Bang
Comment:	Recently, the Big Bang Theory has gained increasing criticism and in fact much of the theory of the Big Bang has been disproven. Science does not prove anything as everything in science is based on theories that cannot be proven, but rather cannot be disproven either. The question than arises Does the story of creation really conflict with the theory of evolution? In many aspects it does, but in many ways a person can indeed find similarities between the theory of how the universe was created and to the scientific theories, such as the big bang. Let me first talk about creation. In Genesis chapter one verse 4 it talks about how god created light, but than seperates the light from the darkness i.e. the sun and the stars.
From:	taesing	2005-05-05 15:37:12
Subject:	Creation and the big bang
Comment:	The question than arises, does the Big Bang contradict the story of creation. The Big Bang after all was an explosion that expanded the universe in in the explosion dust particles formed the stars i.e. light and formed the plants, which includes earht, which at that time would have been devoid of life and at the same time the new stars would indeed create a day on earth. The next area of the creation theory is that God created water and seperated the water by putting above and on the earth. Does this talk about why the sky is blue or could it mean more. Scientifically there is water above the earth, within the 'sky' and also water particles in space, thus the Big Bang doesn't contradict how the water was formed. Sure a person cannot see God and many would say if he exist that he must have come from something, but at the same time, when does the existence of something eventually lead to a single something? Eventually there has to be something that just existed in order for evolution to work, thus may be God does exist and he is that something
From:	D	2005-08-22 18:00:18
Subject:	Why one or the other?
Comment:	Why does there have to be either God or the big bang? Is it not possible that God created the big bang? Through the Talmud, God is shown to do things in their own time. The Biblical account of creation takes 6 days, the universe is said to be 10-20 billion years old. If you were watching the creation of the universe from a point where you were not part of it, how much time would pass on your watch? If you could be part of it, how much would the time dialation be due to the fantastic speeds. God is not bound by time because there needs to be space and matter for time to be of use. The only job time has is to keep the past, present and future from being one. Is it possible that if one could trancend time, they could see all at once?
From:	vasya	2005-12-15 09:15:35
Subject:	evolution
Comment:	Has the evolutionary theory really explained evolution? And its seems like there is always something wrong found in evolution. If you don't believe me than you should take a look at how this theory has changed since at the beginning of it and to this present day. OK! I won't write anything else!
From:	Marshall	2006-08-03 22:05:52
Subject:	Big Bang
Comment:	Hi all you people debating the Big Bang THEORY. (Dead give away, huh?) I have a question for you. The original theory explained that particles of matter that existed in the Universe (where did they come from?) were thrust together forming the planets and stars etc. by the ignition of the Big Bang. have any of you ever placed a cherry bomb, M80, or even a firecracker in the ground, lit it, and run? When are the particles of matter closest together? Interestingly, the farther the particles are thrust, and the theory says that objects in the Universe are STILL moving, the FARTHER APART THEY BECOME! Now, that said, it would be IMPOSSIBLE for the BIG BANG to have created anything! Not one planet, not one star, not one dirt clod. The theory is not logical. The explosion is the exact opposite of what needed to happen for the Universe to be created. Now let me ask you another question. Where did gravity come from. It is the exact antithesis of all that is logical. Have you ever ridden on a Merry-Go-Round? The laws of motion dictate that as we travel in a circular motion we are thrust outward away from the center of the motion. Why then, are we not slung off the earth and catapaulted into space? Gravity, you say. What is gravity and where did it come from? There is no logical explanation to this phenomenon. It works counter to all the laws of nature. You can seek to explain away the origin of the species, the creation of the world, and even your very existance, but the simple fact of the matter is, It takes a lot more faith to believe in these perposterous MAN MADE THEORIES, than it does to simply acknowledge the power of God. IF, spontaneous generation occured, why is it not still occuring? IF, there were a BIG BANG, why only one?
From:	Marshal	2006-08-03 22:06:25
Subject:	Big Bang
Comment:	Can we PROVE scientificly that there is a GOD? Probably not. God wants us to accept him on faith, believing. I, personally, would rather accept him and live my life by his guiding principals, dying with the hope of eternity, than to take the chance that there was a God and I was to stupid to believe in him. Here is the Marshall theory of creation. The reason scientists are so conused about the age of the earth is simple. God created it with age. Now don't get whacky on me yet. Think about this. God creates a tree. It is 40 feet tall. Along come a team of scientists who try to determine its age. They measure its height, its circumference and even cut it down and count its rings. No matter how you look at it, the tree is one day old. The confused scientists think it to be at least 50 years old. Apply this idea to the earth and you have the reason scientists are confused. I could go on, but I will shut up now. If you are open minded enough to think through these things, you may have the basis for coming to belief in God. My prayers for you. Marshall
From:	Bob	2009-04-19 06:17:53
Subject:	In reply to Marshall
Comment:	Marshall, I would just like to point out that just because you can't contemplate [or deal with the idea] that there might not be life, doesn't make it wrong. Also, in response to where did gravity come from, it came from the original 'superforce' which then separated into the forces we see today. And where did that superforce come from, no-one knows for sure. You may think that this tells us that god must have created it but let me then ask you this: Where did God come from? (it's the same problem)