Talkback: Christian logic (sic)

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From:	Russ	2001-11-16 07:55:46
Subject:	point not made ?!
Comment:	You can apply differnt types of logic, i.e. contradiction, boolean, cause/effect relationships, to prove anything. On that point I concour with the theist, But, if you apply two or more types of logic to the bible, you will almost never come to the same conclusion. That is why you can apply logic to mathematics but not religion. Bob bless amerika
From:	Xmarks	2002-03-24 08:27:52
Subject:	180proof, warchest and progrmming
Comment:	If you are conscious of your programming the deprogramming is next, if that is what you want to do. Belief is the deal breaker. Once one believes, she then stops searching, right? You believe the Bible-Torah-Koran version, in some variation, you are hooked. Instead of using a belief system try a 'reasonable story' approach. Believe nothing, disbelieve nothing. Take inout at face value. You know of your own objections so having a belief system hanging thee with a realization that the belief is merely an acceptance of having UNDERSTOOD what was being said. As a religious person, ou need not investigate aspects of religion by blind faith acceptance of the dogma. Check it iut. Belief uses a lot of stress ful mental energy as the mind is always alert to defend against logical or 'scientific' attacks, or from other religions pointing to your falable position. Don't argue, accept as a story. There is no rush to jump on some religious bandwagon - check out history. Read Matthew Chapter 6 Veses 5&6. This will blow your religious mind. After reading ask the question: Why have not religious scholars and minsters etc. discussed Matthew before. Everybody is familair with the 'love thine enemies' as discussed by the prophet jesus anad of the 'good Samaritan' also discussed by Jesus. J also suggest that 'when you pray pray thus . . .' and he goes on to cite the Lord's prayer, clearly meant to be said in he privacy of ones room. Ask youself why did both sides of Mathew 6:1-7,get discussed with much frequency, but Matthew 6:1-7 has been ignored? ASk yourself the question - always ask th equestion. 180proof and warchest sound like remnants of a memory striving to be set free. Peace Xmarks
From:	Danni	2003-01-07 21:29:33
Subject:	my comment
Comment:	I do not beleive in 'god' becasue i do not believe that our lives are controlled by one supreme being. i beleive that we controll our own destiny. and many people say that 'god' has a plan for everyone. was it then 'gods' plan to kill thousands of innoncent people in the sep 11th attacks??
From:	scoop	2003-02-02 23:15:14
Subject:	Response to Danni
Comment:	In response to your statement that you don't believe in God because of the evil events of 9/11. I must say that you are in denial. You deny the fact that there are two forces at work on this planet. Good=God evil=Satan.Satan was casted down from heaven because he became puffed up with pride and wanted to be God. God put us on this planet for RELATIONSHIP. To have a relationship with someone you CANNOT force tehm to be your friend. So God gave us a FREE WILL. You can choose to follow God or Satan. You cannot choose both. God didn't cause the destruction on 9/11. It was people who chose to do EVIL. The only thing more powerful on this earth that God...is your WILL.
From:	Carnifex	2003-06-01 20:30:15
Subject:	Few questions
Comment:	More questions then commments if thats allright, One: i read the argument and did not hear a reason why science and reolgion automatically disqualify each other, what is the reason? Two: The belief is that the bible is gods word complete and whole?, reason i ask is it is obvious that at some point the bible was physically written, the bible we read today has been translated many times which will lead to inacuracy. Also it was orginally written by man, say you were god trying to explain to a people with only supersition and no science the idea of the big bang and the physical creation of the universe, maybe it came out as the 7day theory?
From:	Footsteps of God	2004-08-02 18:30:07
Subject:	Faith vs Logic
Comment:	Do parallel lines meet? Refuse to make up an answer and you can only produce an invalid mathematics (mathematically proved). One of the best observations concerning people is by Dr. Albert Ellis (most frequently cited author and ranked the most influential therapist by clinical psychologists), 'All humans are out of their minds. They're not only disturbed. They get disturbed about their disturbances. Until you accept that people are crazy and do all kinds of terrible things, you’re going to be angry.” “Vulcan” like logic is not sufficient because life regularly provides erroneous data and the computer is naturally faulty (like in the movie, The Matrix). Jung, Ellis, and Schnarch (top psychologists), Senge, Drucker, and Milton (top management consultants), and Cloud and Townsend (Christian psychologists) all have shown that all 'real' personal or organizational growth is spiritual growth. The main differences between animals and man, Neanderthals and homo sapiens, or even Adam and Eve before and after the fruit of knowledge are moral development and resulting normative emotions (quilt, shame, and gratification) and creativity (Neanderthals may have used tools and fire and even believed in God and an afterlife but they never drew pictures on their cave walls). Thus, moral and creative development is the only escape (but not a replacement) from the normal arrestment of human logic and personality. Put a rat in a cage with a lever for heroin and the rat will choose death by injection 100% of the time – only humans have the ability for free choice not to result in death. We rule this world not with opposable thumbs or superior intellect, but with our greater spiritual potential.
From:	Footsteps of God	2004-09-19 00:04:52
Subject:	Logic
Comment:	Critical thinking means superior Input-Processing-Output processing (audited with an IPO analysis) by identifying issues, assumptions (and presuppositions), appropriate criteria for judgment, and the ability to draw sound conclusions from the evidence. A sincere approach (and valid self-view) will thusly not validate all possible opinions. What remains (other than valid opinions) can be referred to as wishful thinking or blowing smoke. Sorry, Russ, logic can not prove anything and all opinions are not valid. For example, we tend to lock up people who think they are Napoleon. Opinions should only be encouraged when they can be supported by textbook theory and laboratory experiences. The steps of the scientific method are 1) Observe an environmental aspect 2) Develop a working (and null) hypothesis 3) Make predictions based on hypothesis 4) Test predictions by conducting experiments or making more observations. Use statistical tools to help separate information from noise and modify hypothesis accordingly. And, 5) Repeat last two steps until no discrepancies.
From:	Footsteps of God	2004-09-19 00:07:37
Subject:	Control
Comment:	“Show me the data” attitude prevails even with faith because God does not want 'yes' men or blind believers (that would be a cult). For example, no TM yogi has ever lowered their blood pressure as successfully as those who utilize prayer (start with Beyond the Relaxation Response for your own research). Control is the underpin of mental distress –we all know that rape (just like frequent casual sex) is not about sex but the neurotic need for control. Primitive self-defense mechanisms obstructs the orderly development of checks and balances and one is stuck for life at an early development stage, unable to see people as whole objects (they are either all good or all bad), as the basis for later self-absorption (and there have been more self-help books written recently for self-absorbed children of Narcissists than even diet books). TV personality Dr. Phil McGraw describes in his new book, Self Matters, that a 5-minute experience in the principal’s office in 3rd grade left him forever distrustful of those in education or authority. Facing his pathology only develops a functional illiterate able to prosper without ever knowing the real person God meant for him to be (certainly it was not to be a 54-year old third grader). It is only through loving better (and God first) rather than living better (as Eastern religions might suggest) can we truly know ourselves.
From:	Footsteps of God	2004-09-19 00:10:07
Subject:	Measured Faith
Comment:	Although it has been suggested that U.S. investors often check corporate values and ethics, the principal criteria tends only to be whether the executive team is perceived as having the necessary management skills to carry the company. Most organizations, unfortunately, are wholly over-managed and under-led with bureaucratic, arrogant, and uncreative cultures. MBA schools that turn out managers and not leaders may partly lie at the root of this situation. The result is poorly implemented strategies, acquisitions without the needed synergy, costly re-engineering, and downsizing and quality programs that fail to deliver. Other spiritual theorists and my own research substantiate that worker performance and corporate profits, however, can be increased by efforts specifically aimed at boosting personal and workplace spirituality. I have found strong correlations between the standard Ellison Spiritual Well-Being Scale and a developed Spiritual Development Scale as well as between a Workplace Spirituality Well-Being Scale (based on the Open Organizational Profile survey and assessments guidelines from Kotter and Mitroff) individually with a developed Workplace Commitment, Satisfaction, Attachment, and Values Scale in addition to a Profit Scale. The successful increase in profits from an improved Christian ethos may be why China now has more Christians than any other country in the world with between 10,000 and 25,000 conversions each day.
From:	mel	2006-05-25 11:04:10
Subject:	quotes
Comment:	hi, would you mind tellig me where you got the quotes from Lincoln, jefferson, frankin. As a student of history i never believe secondary sources unles backed up with a reference. Thanks. Would be interesting if they did say those things as all have been portrayed and quoted as christians.
From:	Newton Joseph,Ph.D.	2007-02-07 04:47:06
Subject:	Mental health
Comment:	Hello Dr. Joseph, I just wanted to say thank you for the valuable help that your website has given me in my hard times recovering and healing from being religiously brainwashed. It was a very bad time for me and I was so filled with paranoia and ill mentality thoughts, I was scared to death at times. I have been healing for about 7 month's and continue to improve. I was at the point where I actually was believing that I was speaking to God, etc. Sort of like Pat Robertson. I do believe I was insane and lost touch with what was real in our world. So, you have helped save my life in very trying times. I finally realized that it was all just inside of my brain. Thank You and I love you man!! I know I am not alone in America suffering this atrocity which churches do to people. Best Regards, Michael B. Itchue