Talkback: athiest and christian morality

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From:	Luis Patino	2001-09-28 04:50:06
Subject:	morality is innate and objective
Comment:	eadon you almost got it right, except for the bit saying that 'history teaches us that morality is not constant.' this is really the central point that can clear up the confusion between the deformed moral codes set forth by assorted religions and the natural morality innate in human beings with complete _and_ physically healthy brains. What has changed historically are the perverse 'moral' codes of religions and the consequently declining proportion of people with complete and physically healthy brains. Unfortunately I saw this too late now and must get some sleep, but please remind me via email to elaborate on this. For now I'll only say that religions (excluding certain tribal spiritualities which I tentatively qualify as harmless and even good at reinforcing natural morality) constitute the worst disaster to ever befall humankind. Ahh ahh ahhh, religious people, before you open your mouth to reflexively contradict me just ponder that if it were not for religion the World Trade Center would still be standing, 7000 people would still be alive, thousands more wouldn't be injured or grieving, and millions more would still have their jobs throughout the world - and that is just in the last two weeks! Luis
From:	unknown	2001-12-21 19:39:52
Subject:	theres no reason to duscuss
Comment:	What is it mean by i don't believe in God? didn't you just siad the word God
From:	Serena	2002-07-29 12:30:21
Subject:	religion vs. morality=choice
Comment:	I am a Christian, and I believe that God gave us a conscience. THAT is what tells us what is right or wrong. I think warpriest gave a bad argument and should have thought about what he said before he said it. This is NOT about God telling us to be moral, it is about God giving us a choice. We all can choose to lead whichever life we lead. Every one of us is born in sin and therefore separate from God because God is pure, but if you CHOOSE to follow his commandments, then you CHOOSE to live forever in his kingdom. Morality is only a small part of it and nobody is looking at the big picture. People can CHOOSE to lead a moral life but CHOOSE not to believe in God, as some are doing in this case. In my experience, I have found that arguing with people who have no intent on changing their minds, such as eadon here, is a waste of time. I think that entire argument was completely useless, because it accomplished nothing and it was not going anywhere. Besides that, religion and morality are two things that can't be compared. It's like comparing apples and oranges, because the two are completely separate and different things. There has to be a bridge between them to make it work. The bridge is your God given consceince, but still, even with that you can't compare religion and morality.
From:	Jackie	2002-10-19 16:32:32
Subject:	MORALITY IS EVOLUTIONARY
Comment:	there is no standard unchanging moral code. The Bibles rules contradict themselves, ex: Thou shalt not kill, abraham sac- rificing issac, israelites killing other tribes with other religions, and many others, and science has changing morals as well. as time changes, our paradigms shift. we now have womens rights and freedoms for example. as society is faced with new concepts, we have new beliefs. Christians seem to have no concept of love and respect though, they seem to feel that without God there is no reason to be a good person if we found absolute proof that there was no God tomorrow, would all the christians suddenly change and give up their values? true the Bible does give us a basic foundation of what is right and wrong, but so do our consciences.
From:	mikekk67	2003-06-21 13:05:50
Subject:	Atheists VS Christians
Comment:	For any Christian, they seem to accept anything to be true as long as it is written in the Bible. Well, can they prove they have the Holly Spirit in them? No. Can they prove they have a soul? No. Can they prove Heaven? No. Can they prove Hell? No. Can they prove the stories in the Bible? Noah's Ark? Adam and Eve? The creation of Earth? No, no, no, no. Can they prove that God exists? No. Christianity preaches millions of things, and each of those millions of things can NOT be proved. I find it hard that this fact alone does not make them wonder about the vadility of their religion. So what do they do? They claim to have 'faith.' What is faith? Beleiving something when you don't know if it is true. Which is just a fancy word for what I just described above. And I guess most Christians don't find it odd that their own parents raised them as Christians when very little. I guess that doesn't mean anything to most Christians, but it is scientific proof that the child's mind is deeply affected and persuaded at their early stages of development. Even a Christian I talked to admitted this. That they aim for children because it is their 'most impressionable years.' http://www.geocities.com/mikekk67/ATHEISTS.html
From:	Craig Wallace	2003-07-27 15:34:54
Subject:	Christianity is just a drug
Comment:	'Religion is the opium of the masses' -Karl Marx. Now, for those of you who don't understand or choose not to, it means that all religion is made to keep people, (especially women and slaves) submissive. I know its hard for some folks, but snap out of the dreamworld for minute and try to look at it thru another point of view and you'll find that your believing and putting faith in something that totally contradicts itself and shows falseness. Can we prove that men were made from dust and women from a rib. Hell no. Have we found half human and ape skulls. Yes, we have. ...You pick...
From:	FabuluzFreakOfNature	2003-10-13 10:00:20
Subject:	Morality
Comment:	WarPriest, who created God? (besides the obvious) You are forgetting that Hitler himself was a devout Christian. Christianity does not have the monopoly on morality. Religion only allows those to do as they wish to others under the blanket of false morality. Religion is nothing more than an ancient means of social control. As was said Buddhists are some of the most moral people in the world. The concept of doing 'what is right' is more logical and less complicated than you seem to make it....if it brings pain and suffering to others.....don't do it...cause you yourself would not want that bestowed upon you. Christianity has brought about the mindset of some of the most malicious people in the world. Faith is believing in something that intelligence tells us is not true. If you feel the need to have faith in a placebo to deal with the realities of life....then that's your privelage.....but it will not be forced upon someone who has a stronger will and doesn't need to believe in the supernatural to make their life more worthy.
From:	fabuluzfreakofnature	2003-10-13 10:09:08
Subject:	Morality
Comment:	Serena..........According to the bible.....'God' created evil. How pure would a deity be who did that? He also sent bears to maul and mutilate children simply cause they made fun of a guys bald head. How pure is that? His punishment for a rapists for raping a woman was that the rapist had to marry his victim and pay alms to her father for the rest of his life. A victim has to marry her rapist. Kinda makes ya wonder who's being punished. How pure is that? There are many situations in the Bible where 'God' destroyed the innocent. 'He gave his only begotten son' is probably one of the most insane ideoligies.....and even proven as much when Christ said 'Father, why have thou forsaken me?' I was raised a christian as well. It wasn't until I DID read the Bible from front to back, that I denounced the religion. The Bible is hardly a guidebook for morality.
From:	Kalsu	2003-10-22 11:28:07
Subject:	spiritualism
Comment:	on the spiritualism topic, i believe that it makes you more aware of nature then of any other worldly beings. many people are spiritually in touch with their surroundings at all times, they don't have to read the bible or pray to accomplish this.
From:	yasmin	2004-01-12 09:54:11
Subject:	ethics, morality and religion
Comment:	following on the discussion on morality and the existance of God, my view is that God provides us with the moral strenght to do what's right as much as we possibly can. One person's ability to good varies from the next. God has the power to increase and decrease such ability.
From:	Zero Ikari	2004-02-02 05:26:23
Subject:	Comment on psychopathics and morality
Comment:	I would like to note, i have never been diagnosed, other than by myself, that i am seriously psychopathic, urges to kill, blah blah blah, you know the normal psycho stuff, its all from strong urges that are hard to fight, and yeah i feel a constant frontal lobe pain, but anyway, i have morality, but it doesn't help much, its the fear of the possibility of there being a god that keeps me from ever spilling blood, i'm sure other people with these problems feel the same way, i'm not athiest nor christian, i really don't have a religion, i am extreamly smart, which also explains some of my problems, knowing too much, but again, i've seen evidence of religion being right and athiests being right, they tend to klash, but the point is, you can never say that being psychopathic is not effected by religion, becuase religion can be a big help in containing the urges to kill and such, just becuase its a disorder doesn't mean the person with the disorder has no control, most, but not all.
From:	Zero_Ikari	2004-02-02 05:28:30
Subject:	Contenuation of my last comment.
Comment:	psychopathic people have reasons for wanting to kill or whatever weird stuff their into doing, being athiest is ignorant, for the simple fact that you can't just die and nothing happens, it just literaly can't happen, you can't just stop existing, i mean i would love to hear what athiests say about what happens after their dead, but from what i see so far, their theorys about death are as ignorant as christian theorys, only athiest theorys have NOTHING to back them up, myth or fact, they just can't back up anything they say, its all ignorant rantings from people who's minds are so small they can't comprehend anything that they can't see, now i know i may seem like i'm insulting them, but i'm not, its honestly all in opinion, but athiests are as blind as they say christians are.
From:	Zero_Ikari	2004-02-02 05:29:38
Subject:	Final comment contenuation.
Comment:	only their lazy, their so lazy they would rather believe in nothing at all than try and believe in something that could potentialy be wrong, they have too much fear, now as for christians, they are ignorant at times themselfs, their so afraid of offending god, the god they say loves them no matter what, they refuse to question the bible, even though it contridicts itself on so many levels, you see, god can't be wrong, a god knows the future and all of its own actions, there for if god wrote the bible then the bible would NOT contridict itself, and also christians do tend to be a bit too ignorant to understand evolution, but evolution is as much a theory as god is, no matter how much evidence there is on evolution, it just CAN'T be proved in this life, unless they can go into the past, so i guess thats all i wanted to say, my opinions on christians and athiests, and the fact that some psychopathic people are not helpless to their thoughts and urges, and that religion helps them, and by the way i don't hear voices, if anyone wants to talk to me any longer about what i said privatly, just contact me via AIM at RockmanEXE 00 or my e-mail Duan20xl@yahoo.com, hope i got a point across, later.
From:	becky	2004-02-08 13:01:26
Subject:	paganism...
Comment:	We all seem to be forgetting that the supposed Pagan God, known to many as Osiris-Dionysus, even if he never exsited, came before the idea of Jesus was ever written down, therefore, based on obvious fact (if you'd actually study the debates against your beliefs and have room to talk) that Christianity is based on Paganism. Christians and others are either blocking this fact out of their mind which they are often known to do with many other unanswered questions, or they just study their own religion and none other which would mean they have no reason to talk when they don't know of such things. I'm not going to state all the factual reasons that the Bible was just a rip-off of The Pagan God Osiris because I cannot fit it all in here. But go to the library and pick up the book 'The Jesus Mysteries - Was the 'Original Jesus' a Pagan God?' by Timothy Freke & Peter Gandy. If this does not convince you to read further into the question behind Jesus or spark your interest to possibly consider the fact that Christianity is obviosly based on Paganism then you are just ignorant to the core. People, please learn the facts before you debate a topic that you don't even know the history of yet base your whole lives on. That is pure ignorancy and shallowness. Feel free to Instant Message me at ShakinThePlanks or email me to further discuss the topics of Christianity, Atheism, and Paganism, but please understand what you are discussing before you waste my precious time with your incoherent bullshit.
From:	angelrahl	2004-03-12 04:28:50
Subject:	my thoughts
Comment:	first of, i don't think that arguing the existance of god will ever prove anything, jesus himself never argued to prove the existance of god, why, because its not up for debate. i don't believe in the big bang theory and i don't believe in evolution. saying that an explosion set everything out in the just the right spot is insane to me. it would be like saying that if a tornado went through a junk yard it would create a car that works. it just wouldn't happen, no matter how much time passed. i truly believe with all of my heart that there is a god, that has never been brought into question. why do i believe this, because christianity is based upon relationship, not religion. if anyone truly gives themself over to god and lets god take control of his or her life, they will not be let down. god has proven himself over and over to me.
From:	angelrahl	2004-03-12 04:30:34
Subject:	my thoughts 2
Comment:	i know that you could say that it is faith, or that i am weak, or whatever else you could say. but the truth is i am weak, perhaps even ignorant, but that only makes me trust in my god all the more. if you truly don't think god exists than why are you trying so hard to prove that he doesn't. as far as evolution, if something is better equipped to survive, of course it will survive, that doesn't mean that nature has a mind of its own, that the created is bettering itself. with all this talk about the missing link and monkeys and man. we still have monkeys today, to say that we evolved from apes or monkeys or whatever is unintelligent. why would they have the need to evolve if they are still around today, they were obviously well equipped to survive. if evolution did take place, we would have millions of transitional fossils, not just a few here and there. for one species to become another. it would take thousands of years and a whole lot of transitional fossils. where are they? another point that i am sick of hearing is who created god. if you claim to think outside the box then do it now, we are not infinite beings. we are mortal, we have no omnipotance, we are not omnipresent. God is so much bigger than anything we could describe. how can the finite being explain the infinite, the eternal. it will never happen. if i jumped out of a plane without a parachute, i would die. no matter how much i wanted to believe i wouldn't, no matter how many times i said the ground didn't exist, it does, whether i accept that fact or not doesn't matter. i will write in the future but for right now i have to go
From:	Conqueror	2004-05-05 00:16:06
Subject:	Abandon ship--choose life
Comment:	I am a biology student and do not believe in evolution which is in itself another form of religion. The white America has left its God and clinged to ratonality and logic, and if you don't follow you must be stupid, and blind. Whats wrong with not killing, not having sex before marraige (I can remind you of the aids epidemic and STDs that kill every day), not stealing, doing to others as you want done to your self, not having eye for an eye. These principles are taught by the Holy bible and if we all follow these guidelines, true love will be more evident today. God has said in His word, 'the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.' I Corinthian 1:18. There is no hope for this world, God is calling you to abandon ship, God only gave you these commandment to protect you not to put you in a box. We don't go 100 miles per hour on a local highway because the speed limit is set for our protection, we follow these limits, don't we?
From:	rodeo	2005-06-16 03:48:08
Subject:	dlh
Comment:	how can you believe in the Devil but not in God
From:	sez mo	2005-10-19 22:44:49
Subject:	hi me ere
Comment:	alrit moral codes are forbiden tats wot i say gir on lol sez mo woz ere 2005 !
From:	David	2006-02-01 18:56:06
Subject:	Morality needs no god
Comment:	Morality is possible without a god. It just comes to normal people naturally; what is wrong is wrong. You don't steal because only parasites steal. You don't hurt people because it's wrong.
From:	guy	2006-02-27 08:57:57
Subject:	christianity=pure evil
Comment:	i beleive that most christians hold on to their faith due to the love of their parents , and i find it hard to beleive that a grown human being can honestly beleive in all the christian teachings. you know people just cant think for themselves anymore and are afraid to be different, its a sad thing. i actually know people that dont beleive in evolution. for me christianity and ignorance go hand in hand.
From:	SomeGuy	2006-05-10 07:55:41
Subject:	Religion and God
Comment:	I am a christian, and i admire you atheists for your inquisitive nature, and the way you think deeply about the things of this world. So I ask you to think about this; God and religion are they connected? do you need one for the other? Righteousness and Religiousness are they two intertwined paths? or two identical paths leading in opposite directions? Ultimately the question im presenting to you is, is God connected to religion or is that something that Man did? Could it be possible that the God that Man has created with his 'religion' could very well be different then the God who created the heavens and earth? I know you guys arent ignorant enough to just dismiss this so think about it.
From:	nate	2006-05-10 13:11:37
Subject:	morals
Comment:	if there is no god then there is no true morals. we can chnage are morals at will and can disregared them. there is no part of the brain that says we can change a re morals. yet we have morals built in to us form birth is this a evolutional trait. i dont thinck so you dont see animals with morals but you see humans havign them. isnt this proof of god
From:	Mel	2006-05-25 11:25:00
Subject:	hitler a christian
Comment:	Someone made the point that hitler was a Christian. Now, let's be truthful. He may have been born into a 'christian' family and gone to church a time or two, but there is no evidence that he was a 'practicing' christan or even thought about spiritual stuff. lets be intellectally honest here. While a lot of real Christians did bad stuff, (i.e. the inquisition) did they do it becasue they were christians or because they were people and sometimes people aren't very nice to each other. After all, Stalin was an Atheist and he was way worse than hitler. (his bodycount was higher). Pol Pot was an Atheist and he killed 23million. Does that mean that Atheists are more evil than Christians?
From:	AJ	2007-05-01 01:46:43
Subject:	morality
Comment:	Does any atheist in here believe they have a conscience?
From:	AJ	2007-05-01 07:07:42
Subject:	morality
Comment:	Does any atheist in here believe they have a conscience?
From:	Alabaster	2008-04-20 04:09:40
Subject:	morality
Comment:	Morality is learned behavior. It changes with society. During biblical times it was morally acceptable to do things that in today's society, are not. Slavery was once accepted as moral. Today, it's not. The question regarding 'god without religion' and vice versa. If it hadn't been for religion, and the doctrines written on each one, you'd have no concept of a god. You have the idea that a god exists because that idea was passed down from previous generations in one form or another through religion. Regarding Hitler, there is a myriad of historical documents to verify Hitler's religious background.
From:	Alabaster	2008-04-20 04:18:41
Subject:	Morality
Comment:	'I am a biology student and do not believe in evolution which is in itself another form of religion.' Evolution is science, based on actual evidence. It has nothing to do with religion. Regarding morality found in the bible, how do you account for the people who've never read the bible, or where Christianity is not practiced? Do you believe they go around killing people? Stealing? Doing wrong things to others? What about Hindus? Taoists? Buddhists? Or any other of the hundreds of other religions that do not include the bible? What about the atheists in the world who are just as moral as any theist? How do you account for their morality, which is no less than those who believe in a god, or the same god as you do? I can't speak for other atheists, but I have a conscience.