Talkback: Matrix Revolutions

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From:	Shelby Sherman	2003-11-06 20:23:19
Subject:	Matrix is codswallop squared
Comment:	Thanks for the warning. The original movie didn't exactly invoke cerebral peristalisis, although I do rate it slightly higher than Spiderman. Keanu Reeves would be more appropriately cast as a Fluffer in a documentary of gay porno trash, but what can you expect from a Hollywood that has given us Ben Affleck? I refuse to watch this movie, just as I refused to watch the 2nd installment of this stillborn trifecta. SS
From:	Ross	2003-11-14 01:21:31
Subject:	matrix
Comment:	i agree with most of your opinions. However, some of the questoins that you asked were answered in the movie and I only saw it once. Neo was able to alter almost anything in the matrix. Like stopping bullets. So what dont you get when he removes the bullet from trinity? Also, in the revolutions, it says that he is able to 'stop the sentinals' because he can still use his power to anyting connected to the the machine mainframe, every since he visited the architect in reloaded.
From:	Dekka	2003-11-15 13:01:43
Subject:	Missing the point
Comment:	I think that like many people you are getting lost in the religious connotations of the trilogy when really the focus of the film is actually Causality and how the illusion of choice can be used to trap us in a one way street in which there are no turn off's, no junctions and no alternate route. As the Merovingian kept telling us in Reloaded, there is only cause and effect, action and reaction, there is no choice only consequencies.
From:	Dekka	2003-11-15 13:02:12
Subject:	Missing the point 2
Comment:	The message of the Matrix Trilogy is that we all controlled Orwellian fashion, by the people in charge, the Oracle and the Architect, and while not obvious, I didn't spot it at first, the Orwell references are there from Neo living in apartment 101 to the subtle reference to the 3 super states of Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia by way of how each of the films is aimed specifically at one of them. Once you make this connection then the Religious connotations of the films become just one of the many forms of control that are placed upon the people of the Matrix and upon us. The mere fact that you are quite so hung up on the Religious references just demonstrate how deeply etched upon our psyche Religion is.
From:	Dekka	2003-11-15 13:02:40
Subject:	Missing the point 3
Comment:	Not convinced? The first Matrix film was aimed at the Oceania audience*, America, Great Britain, Australia and the Christian Theism of those countries hence the focus on finding/being 'the One' a clear reference to a singular God like figure. The Oracle is the controller/overlord/manipulator, she has told Morpeus that he will find the one and this it what drives him. Trinity (even her name references the Christian Holy Trinity) has been told that she will meet/fall in love with 'the One' hence her fascination with him in the beginning which in time leads to her playing out her part in Revolutions by taking Neo to the AI city. Would she have been so interested in Neo if the Oracle had not told her this? There is little doubt that if she hadn't fallen in love with Neo then he would of been travelling alone to AI city (01) and the final battle would of played out upon the hover ship. Neo would of died never reaching his goal, the equation would of balanced by Smith being deleted as per the finale and the robots would have trashed Zion into the bargain as Neo would never have made the deal with the AI.
From:	Dekka	2003-11-15 13:03:16
Subject:	Missing the point 4
Comment:	Now go and watch some of President Bush's speeches from Gulf war Mk2 and count how many times he tells us that, God wants this war, God approves of this war and God bless America, if the penny hasn't started to drop yet then start google-ing until it does. Maybe Revolutions does not stand well when you take it as a standalone film but as the finale to a Story the Orwell would no doubt have approved of it's fantastic. You really do need to watch all three.
From:	Dekka	2003-11-15 13:04:43
Subject:	Missing the point bootnotes
Comment:	*For completeness, the Matrix was aimed at an Oceania audience and it's inherently Christian ideologies, Reloaded at Eurasia and it's agnosticism and Revolutions at Eastasia and its Hindu/Buddist leaning. Also note how the Merovingian become only 'The Frenchman' in Revolutions. **You do all Understand why Smith died don't you?
From:	Eadon	2003-11-17 17:55:36
Subject:	Matrix revolving doors
Comment:	It matters not how clever the movie is, when it indistinguishable from watching a dumbed-down shooter. There's more to a movie than some pretentious mythology, there are character development, caring about the characters, feeling some kind of emotion other than sheer boredom, you know, that sort of thing. I dont care if I'm not smart enough to get all the references. (I've seen animatrix, by the way, but I was a bit plastered during most of it, at my polish mate's flat in Poole I also saw Ghost in the shell (scores geek points) which matrix also rips off. I'm definitely all for movies being intelligent and multi-layered, but when they are tedious to watch and have absolutely shit dialogue, then they've failed in my book. But your mileage may vary, as they say. Is it just me, or is the emperor lacking a single stitch?
From:	Dekka	2003-11-17 17:57:08
Subject:	More missing 1
Comment:	But it is definitely distinguishable. The mythology is all a ploy, it is there to illustrate how we are controlled by those in power, so many people seem to mistake the symbolism to have some sort of spiritual or mystical message, it hasn't, it's purely a form of control. For example the Oracle plays to it to Manipulate the players. That's it. It's not even about getting all the references but you should be able to get enough of them to understand that control is the key to the movie the references just help, I know I didn't get them all. As for ripping of another film, does it really? Or does it borrow from a film something that that film has borrowed from else where? There is no true originality, it goes without saying, every story borrows from what came before, if you try to follow the chain back you will eventually come to a tale told so long ago that we don't know what came before.
From:	Dekka	2003-11-17 17:57:43
Subject:	More missing 2
Comment:	Regarding character development there is plenty of that too. It is just not where you expect it to be. Maybe it's a symptom of the success of the first film where their role is much more prominent but I think people are too focused on the stars when in fact they are not the main players, their importance obviously diminishes in reloaded and by Revolutions they are easily seen as what they truly are mere, cogs in the machinations of the Oracle, the Architect and possibly the Frenchman. I've not decided upon him yet, I probably won't. Crickey, in Revolutions the Oracle finally makes the transition from cookie loving palm reader to a being that has managed to manipulate and out manoeuvre both parties, one of which may be her creator into negotiating a truce and thus breaking the otherwise unending cycle that had made Neo the 6th 'The One' and resulting in Zion's destruction 5 times before. The problem many have is that the Oracle, as a character is not developed by her presence, instead it is by the turning of the cogs that she has set in motion.
From:	Dekka	2003-11-17 17:58:13
Subject:	More missing 3
Comment:	As for the lacking of a stitch, I think you are proof of the Trilogies story, you are so entwined with traditional Western Story telling, the introduction, crisis, solution and conclusion that we prefer that you cannot see beyond that, you are in fact being controlled by Hollywood I suffered a little of that after Reloaded, my perception was set and I thought the film not that good and it was quite a while afterwards when I thought that maybe I had it wrong, I approached Revolutions with an open mind and without having listened to anybodies opinion on it first and enjoyed it immensely as I did Reloaded when I watched the DVD before seeing Revolutions. The stitches are definitely there but you need to see past the fixations of our own culture, there are many ways to tell a story beyond the cosy hollywood cliché, it's one of the reasons that American Films don't sell so well in Europe and Asia, France manages to maintain a successful film industry of it's own and Bollywood has grown so large.
From:	Dekka	2003-11-17 17:58:56
Subject:	More missing 4
Comment:	The Beauty of the Matrix trilogy is that there are 3 good stories, a definite message for the viewer and there is a conclusion there draws just enough together to satisfy you that this particular Chapter of the story has closed but has left so much open that there is plenty of room for interpretation and discussion. What would you prefer? Endless inane conversations about the ways of the force? Maybe the ultimate contradiction of the trilogy is that it tells us all this about how we are controlled by religion and stories and everything else and yet it's very source is one of the suppliers of one of the controlling mechanisms. If TV is the opiate of the masses then it is slightly ironic that Hollywood has supplied a film that could be seen as a wake up call.