TalkBack: Infinity

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From:	Hugh Jassovich	2001-01-24 18:08:35
Subject:	Cantor
Comment:	HughJass(103): Hey, eadon, why don't you put up an explanation of Cantor's proof that 'some infinites are larger than others' in your infinity page HughJass(103): That's the diagonalization proof?
From:	Rod Gaskins	2001-12-20 19:40:45
Subject:	Infinity vs. nothing
Comment:	I ponder the thought:IS 'nothing' (or the true concept of the word) an antonym of 'infinity'? INFINITY: Soo many. An endless amount. As you approach infinity, more is found. Mathmatically proven. NOTHING: Not a single one. No amount. As you approach nothing, less is found. Mathmatically impossible to prove. OR is 'nothing' a synonym of 'infinity' infinity/nothing: unobtainable, inconceivable, non-existent, tantalizing, a paradox.
From:	Wu Li	2003-02-24 08:40:51
Subject:	Paradoxical Infinity
Comment:	You don't need to be a math wiz like Cantor, Russell, or Godel to understand the limitations of infinity (sic). Philosophers have been discussing the issue since prehistoric times. To say something is infinite is to utter a self-contradictory and self-referential paradox. Infinity imposes the limit that there are NO LIMITS. Cantor's great insight that there are varying degrees of infinity only makes sense in light of the fact that infinity is paradoxical. Sure, infinity is useful for calculus and whatnot, but then so is the null set, zero, and other concepts of questionable reality. The map is not the territory or, if it is, its more useful to distinguish between the two anyway. :0)
From:	liverbean	2003-03-02 14:35:01
Subject:	isn't it useless
Comment:	I'm to the point where i'd would like to stop thinking about this infinity thing. It seems useless, no it is useless. There is no answer or explanation of infinity because there are infinite possiblities that could be or are correct, which actually cancels all of them out when you think of what infinity really is right? I dont know, liverbean
From:	jamie	2003-07-18 15:43:06
Subject:	zero?
Comment:	is zero infinite? and does anyone have a headache like me?
From:	Clayton Carter	2003-09-05 18:12:59
Subject:	A finite headache due to infinity
Comment:	Ahh yaz! The concept of infinity has been confusing me since I new that the universe was infinate. Which makes me wonder, so space is infinate - but space isn't anything at all, it is SPACE and the only reason it has a chance to be infinite is because matter is finite. Since there is only so much crap out there there most always be a space to contain this junk, regardless of how much there is. So forever is another concept in time. Does time end or begin. If time is dependent on motion through space then when did the universe start if there was nothing but space to begin with (I know the answer, do you?) Does this make god completely transcendent of time, or do the rules of being disallow god to do so? If there were no matter, no motion, and hergo no time, then was there anything at all. But since obviously there is existence, and time and matter, then they always must have existed: ie infinity. What I think people put too much emphasis on are the values they try to associate with infinity. Is there an end to love, does truth ever finish, what about justice, liberty or freedom? So now I fall on the theory of the forms to explain what I simply am incapable of understanding do to my position in reality. Infinity is (period). Nothing more, nothing less. Infinity is the form of value, to which all other things are subject to comparison. And comparison is the disease of humanity, a disease that does not allow us to grasp infinity. Also I'd like to see the proof of Canton, because my understanding of the word infinity does not make it subject to size (larger and smaller), and I hate to say this again but... it just is.
From:	ivan	2004-02-01 01:31:05
Subject:	its not nothing
Comment:	lol sorry to burst your bubble clayton but 'empty space' isnt nothing. its made up of quantum fluxuations, thats what makes it a vacuum.
From:	Dakota	2004-03-08 02:11:01
Subject:	infinity
Comment:	get back to me and i'll send you the picture
From:	MadPole	2004-04-24 09:47:26
Subject:	Main Problem with Infinity
Comment:	The main problem with infinity, I find, is that there seem to be an infinitive number of definitions and associated meanings of this word.
From:	Clayton Carter	2004-08-06 02:34:28
Subject:	My bubble?
Comment:	Ivan, technically, if you want to define what 'empty' is, then you are all wrong. Empty space is inherrintly... empty, devoid of anything. Sure space is something but empty-space (hyphanated now!) is by definition with out time, and without these quantum vaccum flux's. So be careful with your words. I also feel like you don't really understand what a quantum flux is, but I'll do my best to explain. At the very fabric of space, beyond small, are tears in the physical universe. Alternate universes... maybe, alternate time... well not really, time doesn't really flow, it's kinda our perceptions that make us feel that way (I recomend 'The Philosophy of Time' published by Oxford). Mathematically there is a universe out there for any different outcome of events to occur within (and I wonder, with action and reaction the way it is, how are there differences in the universe?), and since there are an infinate number of events to consider there would be an infinate number of universes as well. All right on top of eachother, and in fact interacting (photons exhibit dimensional conflict in vaccum situations by colliding with... well, themselves in a parrallel universe).So these quantum vaccum flux's aren't actually something, sure, they may be a force, they may be the essence of what makes matter in our universe, but they certainly are not 'something' within space... they are space. Herego, empty-space is devoid of even these forces. I'm not saying I am right at all about this quantum foam, in fact I am more than likely wrong, but for the sake of arguement I don't feel I have been proven incorrect.
From:	Starhawk	2004-08-21 01:04:56
Subject:	The Goddess and infinity
Comment:	Is it not true Pythagoras ancient saint of old saw a vision of wonder and glory? All is number all is mathamagical wonder and beauty. Infinity is indeed like a woman because she is but another face of the Goddess for is it not true that Infini is the mother of us all, Beautiful and Paradoxical? Mathamatics and mysticism one and the same. Cantorian Absolute Infinity is but another name for the goddess Shakti, goddess of beauty, mystery, lover of Shiva, and the mother of all that is. And so while you may not believe in gods, goddesses or religion as you say, any play with the mysteries and wonders of mathematics is but another path to the loving embrace of the goddess and the jokes on you dear soul. Wake up to the glory of Creation and Blessed be.
From:	Benedict Linus	2005-03-13 02:12:46
Subject:	a different approach to infinity
Comment:	We cannot grasp the idea of infinity because we are finite, the neurones in our brain are finite, and so are the impulses amongst them. We do not know if there is an infinity because we only have 5 sense, hearing, seeing, smellin, touching, tasting to bring us perception. We would need a sixth or seventh sense to slighlty grasp it. Some of us think infinity is a loop, what is outside the loop, for us, everything has a beginning and an end. In Muslim belief, God was never born, we will not understand, accept this. If one comes to the end the universe, is there a wall? What is on the other side? I believe that there is darkness, and I believe that everything began from this inorganic darkness, inverse matter. If someone has any ideas, please e-mail me. Thank you.
From:	al	2005-03-27 15:10:53
Subject:	Islam???!
Comment:	You mentioned that Muslims don't believe god was ever born. Just to get the facts straight, the Islam is nothing more than a guy named Muhamad who climbed a hill somewhere around 600AC and started a discussion group. It is wrong to assign examples to Islam since it is not the origin of anything.
From:	Harry J. Burns	2006-12-06 22:48:39
Subject:	Kinda funny.
Comment:	It seems in some type of bizarre logic that every thing is its own universe.
From:	Harry J. Burns	2006-12-06 23:14:54
Subject:	Now is it
Comment:	We are the nothing which created something. Something will again return to no-thing, which will become something again.
From:	Harry J. Burns	2006-12-06 23:20:51
Subject:	My Bad/previous post
Comment:	I stated on the previous post that something will return to no-thing. We cant return cause we never left. My Bad.
From:	Harry J. Burns	2006-12-07 00:07:09
Subject:	sometype of connection
Comment:	consciousness, is this the link that is not understood?
From:	Rod Gaskins	2007-02-23 16:31:43
Subject:	Infinity ain't so big, it's like nothing
Comment:	'empty space' should be nothing because quantum fluxuations are 'something'. Something is the antonym of nothing not infinity and as to the definition of nothing you have to delve deper than the science of logic and mathmatics. You have to understand a concept that cannot be defined by it's very principal, a paradox you might think, but then you would be wrong to call nothing a paradox hence it would be definable and exist in some tangable form. Humans must evolve the mind to understand nothing because it is the absolute void, the opus of null set. Then once you find nothing it dissolves into something just because it is found. I think mathmatics can and someday will find a way to represent nothing but there will always be somethings evolving from the world of nothingness, quantum fluctuations is just one of the many somethings comming from nothing and to think matter is somthing seems a bit paradoxal to me because most matter is empty space no matter how dense it my be. Then again, with all this empty space with hidden somethings maybe we will find more somethings than nothings but since they both seem to be infinite you might look for: infinite somethings = infinite nothings, which means nothing at all.
From:	E+L D=aleph0	2008-03-19 19:12:58
Subject:	infinite/nothing vs. infinite/everything
Comment:	it is not nothing/infinite. its nothing/something. infinite is in itself and has no synonym, infinite is the all knowing all seeing never understood or not-understood. it can only be percieved, that is the beauty of it. can we ever understand infinite? sure, i belive it is more like INFINITE/EVERYTHING
From:	E+L,D=aleph0	2008-03-19 19:38:41
Subject:	Existance+life=death=aleph0, given time
Comment:	infinite is not a place. it is not a thing it is a concept.infinite is not true or false it just IS. the concept of infinite can be harnessed by humans as a collected concience. an individual cannot harness infinite only percieve it. however thru reproduction and given an ability to transport to other worlds we can live infinitly just as anything we create can be infinite.to create infinite one needs an opposing force. in our case the two forces are male/female.because the concept of infinite can be harnessed in mathematics, i believe infinite exists as all. if one can percieve the concept of infinite, than one can find its point of progress.just as we can produce an infinite number of times as long as our need factors are fullfilled.( food, sleep, water, area/space. since area exists infinitly so can we.its just a matter of transport which we are having trouble with due to the grip of money on nasa.to find an end in infinite is to create death.if infinite space is realized then one can find its point of expansion.to catch the point of expansion is to percieve its growth. existance=infinite through existance humans can live forever. humans have the abilite to create infinite. however a single human cannot.time is essential to the life and death of existance.through those variables we can grasp the concept of infinte. existance+life+death equals aleph0 (E+L,D=infinite)given time
From:	E+L,D=Aleph0	2008-03-25 05:18:03
Subject:	to clarify....
Comment:	i believe that the word paradox is just a lame excuse for people to give up trying to understand something. i also wanted to clarify my last statement, when i said ' one can find its point of progress' i meant one can find the ability to percieve the concept of infinite. because we understand that it exists we may also be able to percieve it in new ways; to understand things we dont... as of yet.
From:	ed zunz	2008-12-16 21:24:02
Subject:	infinity and religion
Comment:	In our daily lives we are rarely confronted with the need for consideration of the concept of infinity. Most of the things we confront clearly have a beginning and an end - birth/death, yesterday/today, fall asleep/wake up, first inning/second inning, etc. In everyday contexts it is easy for our minds to grasp and accept without thinking the concepts of finite beginnings and endings. But not so when it comes to such things as time, space and matter. Now we must deal with infinity. When did the universe begin? What was there the day before? If you could travel on and on into space, where would the universe end? What would you find a mile beyond that point? What was the beginning of matter? If nothing came before, how can you create something out of nothing? Rather than bear the burden of the limitations of our minds we seek refuge in the comforts of myth. God. But who created God? Thats easy; God is infinite.
From:	Rod Gaskins	2009-03-24 06:14:58
Subject:	Nothing to Infinity
Comment:	When trying to conceptualize infinite we certainly can come to a conclusion and perhaps even define a scientific law to prove that infinite is everything other than its’ self. Quantum and Astro physics illustrate the preponderance of evidence that support infinity as endless something’s and not any one thing. The expanse of all space and matter is accelerating outwardly and between the most tightly packed specimens of matter even inside a black hole more matter exists. These are the realities of infinity and its’ existence of endless something’s. The antonym of infinity I find to be nothing its’ self. I fear to think of what Einstein may have discovered or invented had he searched for nothing instead his God or everything. Nothing is where we will find the true understanding of infinity because only after nothing is understood can we begin to grasp the expanse of everything nothing isn’t (which is infinity) To say infinity has a self I think is a bit oxymoronic but we certainly see the equated balance of a grand unified theory that outlines: nothing = = infinity. Being able to resolve any finite certainty to all of that which created or defines it is certainty is what E=mc2 is trying to illustrate. Chaos is an inherent part of infinity. Surely we someday will understand most of everything and be capable of perceiving much more almost to the extent of infinity but it will be our perceptions of nothing that remain the crucial key to truly understanding infinity. How often have you heard of a scientist searching for nothing only to end up finding a something.
From:	Rod Gaskins	2009-09-30 05:56:44
Subject:	Breakthrough in infinity!
Comment:	Turns out we seem to have stumbled across the answers to this infinity paradox with the discovery of the fist grand unified theory E8 (search for garrett lisi on his theory of everything). If E8 turns out to be an accurate model of reality where every/any point across this curvature of space time lie a possibility of an interaction that may possibly create some type of observable presence, then we must concede the definition of infinity to be an infinite possibility limited by the factors that make its' perception possible. Therefore infinity is a parabola of finite perceptions limited only by the ability of its' infinance to be less than its' finite void. With this being the case infinity's could never consume each other. Infinite matter could not consume infinite space rather infinite matter would be less than infinite space and in order to perceive infinite matter we would be limited by the finite bounds of its' perception by the parabola of finite space. This concept is common in symmetry math just as for example, 1.999... is said to equal 2, because the value of the number converges to the number two. Convergence requires that the difference or remainder moves ever nearer toward zero. The difference between the two numbers becomes so small that some mathematicians consider it too minute to be a relevant value. Others accept the leap to a definite sum by saying the infinite series equation would equal the finite value in an infinity of time.
From:	Rod Gaskins	2009-09-30 05:57:50
Subject:	Breakthrough in infinity!
Comment:	Objective things are not more than nothing or empty space, rather they are less than. Mass and density seems convincingly to be a value that is more than the transparent space that surrounds us, when in fact objects cannot exist unless their opposite is removed from that seeming emptiness. It is hard to imagine the big bang theory is accurate when you consider every point in the curvature of space time is a point of perceivable existence. How could there exist a singularity without the void of that singularity and if E8 is correct we are able to define all the infinance of space void of the singularity as an E8 structure just as we can define the singularity its' self as an E8 structure. The anti of the singularity must have existed for the singularity to exist especially if the singularity an an infinance about it so to would it's anti have an infinity. When we observe nothing it is just the alignment of the E8 structure that represents nothing allowing the creation of an existence in the curvature of space void of any observable presence. In actuality non-existence is an observed perception and not a true void of presence allowing the curvature or the non-curvature of space time to exist. So if all points in space time can be represented as an E8 model where do we find the true 'nothing' where even space and time cease to exist and no E8 model can define? The place where gods hand in creation has never been laid and where even thought, dreams, and presence its' self you will not discover. The new elusive infinity 'nothing'.